Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 12

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Video Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 12

Book: Canada

I have greatly expanded the book recently, but I do not know if I get everything that matters. Can you give me a view/feedback/add what you think is missing? HeadbombÃ, { ^???? _???????? Ã, -Ã, WP Physics} 01:46, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 12

A project for dog geography

I have a cleaning job that requires an assistant or three willing people, if anyone has time. A user has recently made a basic stub for virtually every place in the list of communities in Ontario that are still backlinks - however, there are a number of issues that need attention:

1. First, it describes each place as "municipality" rather than community. None of the places in question include municipalities, since all cities entered in Ontario are already written - each and every one of them is a community within a city that is incorporated.
2. Secondly, he categorizes everything directly in Category: Settlement in Ontario, rather than following existing practices from subcategories by appropriate Category: Communities in Ontario by census division.
3. Some redlinks have mispelled spelling or titles for things that already have articles (eg Nairn, Sudbury District, Ontario, already in Nairn and Hyman, Ontario, and Melanchton, Ontario, already in Melancthon , Ontario.) I also do not know who ever really thought that we would really need two separate articles for the townships of Howard Township and Harwick Township of New Scotland, Chatham-Kent, Ontario, as well. Chatham-Kent is a single municipality, mate! The municipal line has no real influence on anything! But I digress.
4. In fact, in accordance with the WP: RS principles, some of them - in particular, places where it is impossible to write reasonably detailed and referenced articles - really just a diversion to the parent city anyway. If all we can actually manage is a single stub that just says that "X is the environment in Y Town", then X actually does not need to separate itself articles.

Does anyone want and can help a little with this? thanks. Bearcat (talk) 03:30, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

The New Scotland problem is probably my fault - I added a red link to both of them to the disambiguation page (specifically, New Scotland, Ontario). The user who created it may not be aware that they are referring to the same place. (I think we should defend them as a diversion, of course.)

As far as confusing the terms "municipality" and "community" is concerned, the user is not the first, and will not be the last. I have changed countless entries with this error when I found them. I'm not sure there's much we can do about this, other than leaving a polite note on each editor's discussion page when we see the error.

I will try to review some of those user edits when time permits. He has made hundreds of microstubs about places in Jamaica and Australia, and thousands of places in many Canadian provinces. (For those who want to review them - see the log of this contribution, or an easier list available on the user's page; placename articles for Newfoundland and Labrador made between Dec. 4-6, Nova Scotia on December 4, BC on December 3, Ontario between November 26 and December 2, Quebec between November 25-26, PEI on November 24, New Brunswick on November 22-24, Manitoba on November 22, Saskatchewan on November 17-22). It will be a lot of work, even for a group of editors. Mind matrix 17:46, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I get Edward Prince's Island cleaned up easily, but this is a special case - with only three districts, that's pretty much "see location map, HotCat changes category", and he does not make mistakes "municipality " to them. I doubt any of the others are almost as easy. Bearcat (talk) 19:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Elizabeth II from the United Kingdom

The ballot to move Elizabeth II from Great Britain to Elizabeth II is being held at Talk: Elizabeth II of Great Britain. - what happens to be random crazy 02:36, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

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Book: Calgary

Created tonight, but I'm not from Calgary so I can not judge whether the book provides the right balance for things (or if I miss the important stuff). Can you give me a view/feedback/add what you think is missing? HeadbombÃ, { ^???? _???????? Ã, -Ã, WP Physics} 08:24, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

src: buzzer.translink.ca

Someone please check my bias in legislative session

I reverted this edit because all the new information sounds too biased, except perhaps party funding as a coalition reason and mechanism to reintroduce the bill after the prorogation. Can someone check that I am not just editing my bias when I unbutton it? thanks. I would also appreciate any suggestions on how to organize information about current prorogasi and whether it should be grouped in one article. ---- Arctic Gnome (talk o contribs) 06:18, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Bombardier CC-144 Challenger

FYI, Aircraft wikiProject talks about merging the Bombardier CC-144 Challenger into the main aircraft article. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 22:48, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

New award ??

Can we make awards for the Music project...
I bring this here because I take this should be a broad decision ..something with our logo LIKE:

tks in advance !!! Buzzzsherman (talk) 00:16, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

The reviewer wants to John Diefenbaker

Hi, I have nominated John Diefenbaker for peer review as well as, because the process is moving slowly now, for a good article. Either way, the idea is to get it to the Featured Articles Candidate at the end of the month. This will be the first Canadian PM to make it to the FA, and I hope the project members will be willing to review the article as it passes the process. I must add that I already have the first PM UK (Neville Chamberlain) and the first Soviet Prime Minister (Nikita Khrushchev) to make the FA in my trophy rack, so this is a very serious endeavor. Thank you! - Wehwalt (talk) 05:40, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

This article is now in FAC, and although no one is against it, there is no support as well. The reviewers are urgently needed, especially from this WikiProject. This will be a breakthrough, the first Canadian PM to make it Come. Please? - Wehwalt (talk) 20:49, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Bulk erasure of Alberta settlements

Please review Afd mass nominations for Alberta settlement on Wikipedia: Article for deletion/Log/2010 January 9th. --Qyd (talk) 02:33, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

I know that mass elimination seems impolite, and 110 articles qualify as mass removal, but that is small compared to the number of residential articles in existing Alberta, 385 registered hamlets, plus a number of unknown articles about communities with historical significance. But where do we draw the line, what communities are too small to be famous? 117Avenue (talk) 03:22, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

While some communities do not really have very much written content about them and are more realistically handled as subsections of articles about their municipal municipality than as independent independent articles, any named community that exists is important enough to be considered a topic potential is valid for an article - since all "community must be X must be considered" types the standard will fail on the Wikipedia command to enforce arbitrary cuts on the inclusion guidelines. So any community that can be proven proven to be entitled to stand-alone articles or redirects. Bearcat (talk) 04:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

So where is the line between standalone and redirect? 117Avenue (talk) 02:56, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Whether we can reference an independent article adequately to a reliable source, and whether there is a reasonable target to divert to or not. For example, even without reference, Hunta, Ontario can not be diverted anywhere, because it is not part of a larger entity. Bearcat (talk) 03:04, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

The more stressful the Canadian Senate

Will people see the latest edits in the Canadian Senate? I'm not interested in dealing with n00bs today, so I've lost my patience. -Rrius (talk) 03:53, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Can you give a little more detail about this issue? DigitalC (talk) 16:03, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

What Can Canada do to help victims of the Haiti earthquake?

I have been following the Haitian earthquake that happened on Wikipedia and this morning found this and thought to myself surely we can do better, right? (I'm not sure where to post this to get attention from Wikipedia Wikipedia, so if this is the wrong place I would appreciate some sort of direction) Ottawahitech (talk) 14:45, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

I added another item that I realized - Rogers donated $ 250,000. T (alk) 15:12, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has now divided these into two different artciles:

• Humanitarian_response_by_national_governments_to_the_2010_Haiti_earthquake
• Humanitarian_response_to_the_2010_Haiti_earthquake Ottawahitech (talk) 16:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Defenseman - & gt; Defenseman

Defenseman has appeared to rename again, to American spelling, again, see Talk: Defenseman

76.66.197.17 (talk) 04:58, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Portal: Northwest Region

Hello! I recently nominated the Northwest Territories portal for a portal role model review. One day I hope to help this portal be promoted to feature portal status. I would be glad if you could join in the discussion on this page. Thank you! JulieSpaulding JulieSpaulding (talk) 13:38, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

New article

Ok I have created a new article on genetic studies of Native Americans.... First I think we should find the right title for it !!... but that is being propagated in Wikiproject.. I am here for you all to add this to your watch list pls !!!.. Buzzzsherman (talk) 03:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Category: Public Houses in Canada

Category: Public Houses in Canada have been nominated to change the name to Category: Beverage companies in Canada... because I do not see "public houses" used in Canada (or at least my region, and regions I've visited), I'm surprised to see such categories... 76.66.197.17 (talk) 05:41, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

There should be a foreign definition that you stated, because I am Canadian and, when you say public house, I think of public housing in Canada. NorthernThunder (talk) 18:49, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

"Public home" is a formal UK-ism for what they (and we) know better as pubs. However, it is true that long term terms are not well known in Canada; it's also true that while in the UK almost all beverage companies are pubs, in Canada there are several different varieties that not all pubs. Bearcat (talk) 07:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Prime_Ministers_infobox_or_category? Prime Minister infobox or category?

Currently Stephen Harper's article has categories and infoboxes in his name. Should we stick with the category and infobox for every Prime Minister or is it enough? I personally think that infobox alone is enough. NorthernThunder (talk) 10:05, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is sent to every WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 rating system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010 , the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but your project summary table view will change. This upgrade will make many new optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available on the WP 1.0 project homepage. --Ã, Carl (CBM Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, talk) 03:04, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

FA Reviews on Sydney Newman

Sydney Newman has never been tagged or rated for this WikiProject; I think it's probably a much better article has of it. However, I have marked it for the FA review, precisely because it relaxes or eliminates any substantial reflection on its role in Canada as head of the NFB, and policy-level engagement at only about major cultural institutions (CRTC, CBC, Sec State), including its controversial role in censorship such as increased Quebec filmmakers like Denys Arcand, etc. I'm not sure if this is included on the bulletin board, but I will list the FA here if anyone is interested:

• I have nominated Sydney Newman for an excellent article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the criteria of featured articles. Articles are usually reviewed for two weeks. If the substantial problem is not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the list of the Featured Article Elimination Candidates for the next period, where the editor can declare the "Keep" or "Delete" article seeded status. The instructions for the review process are here.) Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:13, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Travel Karluk

This article, which is related to events during the Arctic Expedition of Canada in 1913-18, has recently been expanded from a stub. Given the relevance of a Canadian article, does the Project want to include it in its portfolio? Brianboulton (talk) 09:54, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Montreal Oil Distillation Center

The Montreal oil refinery has been nominated for renaming, see Talk: The Montreal oil refining center

76.66.197.77 (talk) 05:17, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

The Edmonton Oil Refinery Center was also renamed by Fredoues, and was nominated for re-transfer to Refinery Row. 117Avenue (talk) 00:19, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Evanka Osmak

I will go through the list of sportsmen appointed to cover the Vancouver Olympics in 2010 and when I find a bio for Evanka Osmak, I can not determine his citizenship. He said he was born in the American state of New Jersey and he appeared on Rogers Sportsnet. She obviously moved to Canada, but will she be called Canada or America? How is he categorized? NorthernThunder (talk) 02:31, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

At present, we should not state citizenship, but we can state where he was born and where he works. He could be a Canadian born in the US, an American who moved to Canada, or from some other ethnic background. Mind matrix 14:10, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

"I work on water and sanitation main services, improvements and everything," said Osmak, who was born in New Jersey but raised in Oakville. That does not really answer the more crucial question of whether her parents are Americans who moved to Oakville after she was born or a Canadian who happened to live temporarily (or travel) in New Jersey. Although the same description says that his parents are still in Oakville. Bearcat (talk) 01:13, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Bulk naming changes for electoral districts

Based on what I consider to be an inappropriate source added during this edit, User: K.d.stauffer has renamed many district pages by turning the dashes into en dashes, which can cause problems for many districts of Quebec. I do not think the source provided ( Guide for the Writer: Guide for Preparation of Canada's Geological Surveys and Reports from the NRC) is authoritative for this, so we may have to reverse these changes, but I would like a wider input on this. Mind matrix 17:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

By the way, the article moved so far is on the user's contribution list (of course). Mind matrix 17:36, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Dashboard and MOS issues: DASH is used for page names, I think, rather horrible. They should only use standard ASCII characters, then there will be a simple and unnecessary representation for the argument between what version should be used in the article title. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 02:05, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

In this case, though, the Canadian Election uses both en and em dashes to distinguish the place name in an electoral district name. For example, Haute-GaspÃÆ' © sie - La Mitis - Matane - MatapÃÆ' © sie and LotbiniÃÆ'¨re - Chutes-de-la-ChaudiÃÆ'¨re in Quebec both use em and en dashes. If there is a better way to deal with it, then we can certainly consider alternative formats. The user-renamed article has damaged many links, and only applied to the subset of electoral districts, resulting in significant inconsistencies within Wikipedia coverage in Canada's election district. Mind matrix 18:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Each style guide I've seen sets en dash to join place names in English, including those from Canada's Geological Survey (above), federal government ( The Canadian Style , 2nd ed., Translation Bureau, Public Works and Canadian Government Services, 1997). and Canadian Editor's Association ( Editing Canadian English , 2nd ed., 1997). Canadian selection uses en dashes (when permitted by medium). Dashes indicate significant pauses (for example, used instead of colons, colons, dots, etc.), so it should not be used to create compounds. Some district names contain dashes and hyphens, but they are not hyphens. I'm not sure what style is accepted in French, because editing the Canadian French is not my specialty (whereas the editing of Canadian English is). Using en dash instead of em dash is a common mistake, as most people are not familiar with its different uses - but also because en dash is often impossible or difficult to type on most computers. Generally, when a flag is not available, a hyphen is replaced with a hyphen and the line mark is replaced with a double hyphen - although this practice is different. However, since their official name is spelled with hyphens, the article should reflect that, with the redirection of the spell with hyphens or em dashes.K.d.stauffer (talk) 17:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

The point is that there are two distinct classes of the dash used in the names of electoral distict for different purposes. The Dave Van Kesteren district, for example, can not be symbolized as Chatham-Kent-Essex, therefore two different place names (Chatham-Kent and Essex), not three. En-dashes combine elements from one geographical name (Chatham-Kent, Jeanne-Le-Ber, etc.), while em-dashes joins several geographical names (Nipissing - Timiskaming, Chatham-Kent - Essex, etc.) and where em and en dash are not available, you see both both one and double dashes in the name, sometimes even both in the same name (eg Chatham -Kent - Essex). That's the point I think you're not here: Canadian elections use both of them for different purposes that are not interchangeable with each other. Bearcat (talk) 18:42, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

In addition: see also previous discussion on this: one, two, three, and four. There are other possibilities. Mind matrix 18:01, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I have no strong opinion at this point about the issue being discussed, but I am very sure that there should be no more pages moving until the problem is resolved. K.d.stauffer should stop and stop until the problem is resolved. Ground Zero | t 19:31, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Every official thing I've seen from the Canadian election uses em-dash, or sometimes double dash '-' instead. I definitely think this should be returned and we have to go back to em-dash. - SimonP (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Why does Quebec use en-dash instead of spaces in the order of names (Les ÃÆ'Žles-de-la-Madeleine, Quebec)? Does anyone know that? - Unnamed comments added by Qyd (talk o contribs) 22:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

It's just standard French. See, for example, the place names in France: dÃÆ' Â © partements from Ille-et-Vilaine, Haute-Garonne, CÃÆ'Â'tes-d'Armor, etc., Or Clermont-Ferrand cities , Aix-en-Provence, Saint-Denis and the like. Just how the composite names of that type were formed in French. Bearcat (talk) 22:56, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

And besides... Niagara-on-the-Lake and Chatham-Kent show that it's not known in English, too. Bearcat (talk) 07:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

It seems K.d. Stauffer's work has created a lot of red links in the Canadian federal electoral district list and who knows where else. For me, this is a pretty good argument for moving articles back. If he will move the article, then he/she should also be responsible for ensuring that existing links from other articles are retained. Ground Zero | t 21:15, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

I have returned the changes again. There is no reason to break the link to an existing article. This article (and others mentioning this appointment, including the template) should be the last last edited, after all steps are completed, if that is the result of this discussion. Mind matrix 01:40, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Category: Canada national park

I have chosen this cat to change the name here. Please contribute to the discussion. --Kevlar (talk o contribs) 00:40, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Category: Royal Canadian Mounted Police forts

Category: Royal Canadian Mounted Police Forts have been nominated for renaming. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:17, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Olympic watch

Only information about gaming-related articles, and possibly other BC topics - this will be a clear vandal and POV bait for the next few moments, so some extra supervisors will seem wise. Just release some ip vandalism at the 2010 Winter Olympics in the last few hours, including restoring some empty sections. Dl2000 (talk) 03:45, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Dif blanking has been posted/published elsewhere, and I came here to post the same thing, pushing the editor to add this article to their watchlist. DigitalC (talk) 02:51, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Another easy way to watch this article is in Special: RecentChangesLinked/2010 Winter Olympics, which displays all changes to linked articles from the 2010 Winter Olympics. It offers a wide variety of highly watched articles (though they are all relevant ) and showcases more than just the latest edits, greatly reducing the chances of editing the escaped vand. - M.Nelson (talk) 23:49, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

zipper

It looks like Americans have claimed zippers as their own, though it's understood as a Canadian invention. What to do? NorthernThunder (talk) 07:32, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Well without sources saying something different it would seem that it was a US invention. something lame from CBW 17:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I think the problem is where Sundback "lives", among other things. It looks like he emigrated to Hoboken (in 1906?) And became an American citizen. Then he moved to St. Catherines or go there regularly. This discovery appears to have been made in St. Kitts. Sundbeck could not have been a "citizen" of Canada because there was no citizenship 'until 1947. But he might be the subject of England if he moved permanently. Apparently also he never gave up his American citizenship, not sure if the US allowed double citizenship at the time. Without a much more detailed biography about Sundbeck, there is no way to be sure. Franamax (talk) 19:30, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sundback never lived in Canada. The main factory of his company to actually make the zipper is located at St. Catharines, but he lives in Pennsylvania and just visits the facility, in his capacity as president of the company, from time to time. There is no proof that he ever lived permanently in Canada. Unfortunately, a common understanding can be wrong sometimes - in fact the initial zippering was done by the Canadians, but it was not created by Canadians. Very typical of Canadian economic history, actually... Bearcat (talk) 22:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Adam Giambrone

WP: A clear SPA under Username: Rider11011 has included repeated POV comments about alleged credibility of Adam Giambrone as a candidate for Mayor of Toronto in the city election this fall. First there was an unreasonable claim that he was directly responsible for the TTC's operating deficit (as if the TTC had not been in the hole long before Giambrone became chairman), and today was followed up with detailed criticism and especially criticism from the candidate's initial campaign video - well just in the intro of the article, as if "making a furious advertisement that makes some bloggers mock" is one of the most important facts that readers need to know about themselves. I've blocked this article a long time ago, but I would be very surprised if the editor did not try to paint himself as a neutral party and me in an attempt to impose a pro-Giambrone bias, since that kind of counter-claim is pretty much a value for a course in this kind of edit conflict. So, can some editors be willing to help keep an eye on this? thanks. Bearcat (talk) 01:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Done in my watchlist now !!.. Buzzzsherman (talk) 01:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Hestia

Can anyone help to translate Operation Hestia into French? 70.29.210.242 (talk) 11:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

added a new article

I put your banner in the People of Canada but in my opinion it could only be a list of cultural identities. I am not a member but I noticed the article is not related to any project or anything.Marine79 (talk) 16:30, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Parliament online law statute question

link

Can anyone tell me what P-1 means in this law? I think only the C and S letters are used, depending on which house the bill is entered. NorthernThunder (talk) 09:11, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

C or S is for charges , and has nothing to do with the numbering of laws that have actually been passed and signed into law. They only apply to numbering proposed laws that are still before Parliament to be debated - but after they pass a third reading and are given royal approval by the Governor General, they become law, not bills, and do not have to keep the same number, or "home who introduced the same bill, which they had as a bill. Bearcat (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Can passport1.jpg

File: Can passport1.jpg has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

One more for watchlist

There's been an ongoing problem on Julie Fader with an anonymous IP number repeatedly and constantly deleting correct source information about the Fader band being on before becoming one of Canada's most common backup singers. No explanation has ever been provided, of course; there is a strong possibility of WP: COI here, because the only other anonymous editing is Holy Fuck, a band that included the producer of Fader's album, but I can not find any compelling reason why Fader or Walsh will be so determined. to suppress a well-sourced and completely non-controversial statement. Can I convince some people to help keep an eye on this? thanks. Bearcat (talk) 04:54, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll add it to my watchlist. TastyCakes (talk) 05:51, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. It's not even like they're a bad band that does not want anyone to keep in touch with, either - I really saw them live once, and they really well. Bearcat (talk) 05:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Possible file is not free

File: Agar Rodney Adamson.jpg I get an automated message stating that this image may be in violation of copyright law. I hope someone can fix this problem to prevent images, or other similar images, from being deleted. NorthernThunder (talk) 21:04, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Calgary/Ottawa population update

StatsCan recently released their 2009 population report, giving an estimate of all CMA. Discussion is ongoing in Talk: Calgary # Current edits and Speech: Ottawa # Population 2 on whether this estimate should be used or not (especially controversial as it has exceeded Ottawa ^{news archive} as the fourth-CMA largest). Is there a policy on this, or can we develop some? Cheers, - M.Nelson (talk) 16:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I believe the policy is when secondary sources report primary statistics, they are worth mentioning. - ?? o ?? he? ^? _{Ã, Â ¢} 17:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no problem with mentioning reasonable official estimates, as long as they are cited and put into proper context (ie that the 2009 figure is approximate ). StatsCan report needs to be mentioned, IMO. T (alk) 18:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Population proposal

Note: Initially I posted this in Talk: Ottawa # Proposal, but moved here as it is relevant across Canada. - M.Nelson (talk) 18:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Here, based on PhilthyBear's criteria above, the possible proposal for all Canadian municipal articles:

1. Infobox should only use the latest Canadian census data (currently 2006).
2. Introduction should always include populations based on Canada's newest census.
3. Comparisons with other cities should always be done using Canada's latest census, which links to the largest Canadian 100 list of municipalities by population or similar list.
4. If available, the latest Canadian StatsCan estimate should be displayed as follows:
   1. Introductions should always include populations according to Canada's latest forecasts, labeled as estimates, and additional for the latest census data.
   2. If estimate ratings differ from the latest census, new ratings should always be presented, clearly labeled as forecasts, and additional to the latest census ratings.
5. Where available, the most recent public census may be presented, in the introduction or elsewhere, clearly labeled as a civil census, and additional for the above data.
6. Inter-city ratings may not be made between separate reports - only approximate ratings for estimates, never comparing civic censuses, etc.
7. The data should always be taken directly from a credible report; never from news articles, etc.

Note:

• Notice "only", "always", and "never". In addition to the community census, basically nothing is up to the editor's wisdom - after all, we are not allowed to think for ourselves.
• One PhilthyBear comment made above is that the accuracy of the forecast can be questioned, but since they will be presented as an estimate (in addition to the census), the accuracy can be evaluated by the reader.
• Civil censuses are placed under important estimates; This is to ensure consistency across the board. Census data may be presented differently in each article, provided they are well labeled.
• I do not base this on the previous policy; if someone can change something then it might override my suggestion.
• This is just a basic framework, obviously open to discussion. Do not hesitate to separate it. I am personally a stickler for consistency, but I realize that this might get a little WP: CREEPy.

- M.Nelson (talk) 18:33, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

You have my voice M. Nelson. I also believe the info box should have census data, and only census data. And if a city wants to mention in an article about an estimate, than that is up to the editor. Now the source of the forecast may be a problem on the road, but I think the bridge can be crossed when needed. I appreciate your reasonable and effective efforts to solve this problem. PhilthyBear (talk) 22:02, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think if the whole of 4 to 5 is not a problem, we will not even talk about it, I also believe it has become more of a problem of "bragging rights" than information. However I selected the 2006 Statistics Canada figures. Altho if an article wants to mention an estimate and clearly states them as "approximate" and not a fact it might be ok, as the examples of M.nelson illustrate. Altho as Philthybear mentions predicted sources can be a problem. NationalCapital (talk) 01:04, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with most of the above: the infobox should be used for census data. Estimates are inherently wrong, lack precision, and depend on the assumptions made to get them. We do not know, for example, that a fall in crude oil prices from early 2008 to now has had an impact on employment and population in Calgary, or if the residual effect of Nortel destruction has caused people to move from Ottawa. Estimate is unreliable. We can state population estimates on topic pages, but they should not be included in infobox, nor should they be added to comparative articles or lists. Census data reflect real calculations (albeit a bit behind now), whereas estimates depend on assumptions about birth rates and deaths (net natural growth), immigration and emigration (net immigration), employment data, and whatever StatsCan uses to calculate that amount. Change the basic assumptions marginally and you can change the outcome significantly. That is, statistically speaking, estimates have greater variance than census data, and are less useful for comparison. The only conclusion we can really draw from StatsCan's report is that Ottawa and Calgary are roughly the same size now, within the limits of statistical estimates. (In addition: Frankly, I'm getting bored with all the pounding populations on Wikipedia.See the revision history of Mississauga to see the constant flow of "correction" of the population.) Mind matrix 01:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Even before being taken to this page, I do not think anyone argued to change the infobox number. The question seems to have evolved into whether to mention a change of rank or not, or simply to mention a new estimate only, without pointing out that Ottawa is ranked as a result. TastyCakes (talk) 01:21, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Indirectly, I've answered that in my post, stating that estimates are useless for comparison (because of their variance, and also the bias of the estimator in the estimation theory... but that's a different discussion). I do not think estimates should be used to rank in any form. Mind matrix 01:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Before someone corrects me, I would say we can also conclude that both Calgary and Ottawa have grown, but Calgary is growing faster. Both of these things can change. Mind matrix 01:19, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I would like to note that although it is clear that not everyone follows the precise rules around citing population numbers, M. Nelson's original proposal here is actually not too far from the existing policy in WP: CANSTYLE: we allow interesal estimates that are well-sourced to be quoted in articles as additional data, but not to replace data from the last official national census. We also really can not allow this to be the demographic equivalent of a penis size contest, but that's another story. Bearcat (talk) 01:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

If you really think this is a problem Calgari wants to include this for bragging rights, why do not we find someone (or someone else) to mediate this. It seems to me that almost everyone involved in this discussion comes from one of two cities, and our opinions line up in line with our origin. Why not find some people who have no connection with one of the cities (preferably people from outside Canada altogether) to say whether they think a change of rank should be mentioned? I really do not want to get caught in a small argument and I do not think any of us are really neutral observers. TastyCakes (talk) 01:17, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Not to choose sides, but Tastycakes I think you are currently the only one on your side of the argument. I agree that real statistics should be used, and estimates may be mentioned in the article if relevant. ScottRios (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually, reading his proposal again, I see that my only concern with Nelson's approach is discussed in 4-2: "If the estimate rankings differ from the latest census, new ratings should always be presented, labeled with clear as an estimate, and additions to the latest census ratings. " I would really love using this proposal, I'm sorry I did not realize it before. TastyCakes (talk) 03:54, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

There is little doubt that the current growth trend of Calgary will surpass Ottawa by the next census. We always use statistics, why change now. Last comment I will make. PhilthyBear (talk) 01:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Close

I edited the Calgary ^edit and Ottawa ^edit articles to basically display the exact text describing the population on each, ensuring NPOV. I may have removed some information (for example, I took a population of the National Capital Region not referenced in Ottawa and the civilian census in Calgary) but this can be added back in the text if the editor feels inclined (even though the population should, of course, be well labeled). Please see my edits and improve if you can; my words are very sterile and may not match the rest of the intro.

I see that my proposal is basically WP: CANSTYLE # Population with additional references about estimates/ratings/etc. Should this be included in CANSTYLE so that ratings are added across the board, rather than in the POV editor? Cheers, - M.Nelson (talk) 16:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. Let's try and make it consistent across the board. - ?? o ?? he? ^? _{Ã, Â ¢} 16:09, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

I have a problem to talk about. (polite) lol. The National Capital Region is slightly larger than the Ottawa CMA. (Over 300,000 larger) Should it not still be referenced in infobox? Similar to that from Toronto infobox references Golden Horseshoe? PhilthyBear (talk) 16:21, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

I think, as per my proposal and CANSTYLE, none of the articles contained in it should include this additional information. Because the strong consensus here supports census information alone, I would WP: BOLD remove the Golden Horseshoe, etc., population from Toronto (though keep them in the article text). Anyone can continue with WP: BRD, but I would like to think that all Canadian municipalities (even the center of the universe) must adhere to the same standards. - M.Nelson (talk) 16:35, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I think that makes sense, especially for the Golden Horseshoe. The line should be taken somewhere: New York excludes BosWash in the box, I think for the same reason. Ottawa and NCR are more convoluted (wrong words?) Than others, but again, the line has to be pulled somewhere. TastyCakes (talk) 16:39, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

In addition, Toronto links to the Golden Horseshoe, which includes an expanded population figure. - ?? o ?? he? ^? _{Ã, Â ¢} 16:58, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

The NCR population has now been removed from the infobox and is only referenced in the article. PhilthyBear (talk) 17:12, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone know?

Yesterday, I was asked to write this User: Giano/Canada Gate and Canada Memorial, Green Park. which I thought would be easy, but it was not. What a bit on the contrary internet so it's not safe for reference etc, and there's nothing in my reference book - there must be some famous Canadian ironworker and smelter and designer involved, but all I can picture is blank - if you know you can post it on the talk page - or it will be the biggest writing in the main room - which is unfortunate as a memorial of 100,000 Canadians. thanks. Ã, GianoÃ, 15:53, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

It has a monarchic feel to it. Miesianical, maybe a helpful person. GoodDay (talk) 16:27, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

The Google News archive search came up with lots of information about the purchase of the federal government's funeral in 2008, after a controversial "slum." "The monument in Green Park is a creation of former baron press Conrad Black, which has paid annual maintenance fees since 1994 1994" until its sales of the Daily Telegraph in 2004 (and later financial issues). Some articles of special note are this Toronto Star article during the controversy, and this CBC article after the government bought it. Most of the items I found related to Canada Gate only noted the Canadian Gate as the location, not about the Gate itself. - M.Nelson (talk) 17:10, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for finding more than I did. My research shows that the gate was probably made in England, which is unfortunate because it seems to be a whole misleading story, I expect half a decent architectural page with the added bonus of honoring 100,000 dead soldiers. Instead, we get a misleading story about pennypinching meanness - FGS how much does the UK government and Park authorities spend to quietly and quietly defend what in the sad fact is a feature of a small water park? A very sad story. I will do my best with non-POV pages. Thank you for your help. Ã, GianoÃ, 19:43, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Rewriting Highway 401 (Ontario)

Just thought I'd post that I'm in the process of rewriting the Highway 401 article from the ground up in my sandbox. I think that's important enough for Canada as a whole rather than just for sub-project walks, as it often sets the bar for highway designs around the world, and has practically made the Ontario economy as it is today.

I have added over 30 new high-quality sources so far to cover: Highway of Heroes (from Warmington column, to Jay Forbes petition, for recognition and designation by Joanna Cansfield, for signs established in September); Toronto-Hamilton Road (1914), Queen Street Extension (1931) and Central Road (1935); and, Toronto-Oshawa Street (1937), provincial highways (1938), and Highway 401 (1952). I can still use some help in locating the provincial legislature for the appointment of 401, Macdonald-Cartier Freeway, and Highway of Heroes, for route descriptions of MTO/DoH, and for any source about the trivial matters that an editor attaches to, no it will... and of course anyone is welcome to jump on editing. Go for Featured Articles here. - ?? o ?? he? ^? _{Ã, Â ¢} 18:49, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

image permission

I would like to add this image to the Communication Security Setup article and the Sir Leonard Tilley building article. Is it legal, under the Wikipedia policy and applicable law? NorthernThunder (talk) 18:58, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

No. It does not have an appropriate license (see this), and since the building is intact, we can obtain free licensed photos freely, negating fair transaction claims. Mind matrix 19:38, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

• I will take a picture. It will be here in a few days... - PÃ ¢ 1Ã, 9Ã, 9 Ã, 18: 04, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

• Done! - PÃ ¢ 1Ã, 9Ã, 9 Ã, 18:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Canadian Week on Russian Wikipedia

Hello coworkers. From 12 to 22 February in the Russian part of Wikipedia will be "Sunday Canada", a project created with the aim of writing articles about Canada, its people, culture, history and other relevant topics to the country. We welcome any participation, comments, suggestions. JukoFF (talk) 21:49, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Wow a good idea.. I'll come see... I know some Russians... Buzzzsherman (talk) 05:41, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Paul Martin template

Stephen Harper's site has an infobox. I think we need to proceed with making navbox for all Canadian PMs. This is a difficult start for Paul Martin. Edit as you please! NorthernThunder (talk) 10:02, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not fundamentally opposed to this concept - but seriously, does the Environment policy of Martin's government really attack anyone as an article that might have actually happened? Bearcat (talk) 04:55, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

I do not understand why not. If anyone is researching Paul Martin using his Wikipedia article, they should know as much as they can about him, including his policies. NorthernThunder (talk) 12:09, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not asking if the article about such a thing will be a valid contribution . I ask if anyone thinks it is possible contribution. Bearcat (talk) 01:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Vancouver Olympic athlete 2010 article

There are still many pages that are not made for athletes. Let's finish before the Olympics end! NorthernThunder (talk) 12:13, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we need to make a list of missing athlete articles in WP: CWNB/R. According to WP: ATHLETE, all Olympic competitors are well known. Dl2000 (talk) 17:55, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

D'oh - on second thought, only see red links that exist in Canada at the 2010 Winter Olympics. Dl2000 (talk) 18:04, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Red links should Be Strengthening, not Dissolute! NorthernThunder (talk) 22:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Government department/ministry navbox

I propose a navbox for Canadian government departments and to include links to the same province/territory in each navbox, for example, the navbox linking Canada Health and all provincial/territorial ministries responsible for health. NorthernThunder (talk) 01:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

START

Do we have articles on the Task Force on Stabilization and Reconstruction? Hill Times said [1] that START will take over from DART in Haiti. 76.66.195.93 (talk) 09:28, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hill Times says it was formed in 2005 and is part of Overseas [2] 70.29.210.242 (talk) 08:56, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Top 10 Canadian Olympic Winter Event

I am very leaning towards requesting this removed, but I think a lot of that's a big deal. Discuss. NorthernThunder (talk) 05:43, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

"Look ma, TV does something so we need Wikipedia article in it!" I do not see a special one-off as very important. Shit, I chose to remove it with the argument that it's a shame that Canada chose eight out of ten moments from the last two games. You would think actually hosting a 1988 game would make a list (or at least, Elizabeth Manley's silver medal) - one of the earliest Canadian hockey teams, etc. Resolute 06:04, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Wait for the Paralympics to finish, or you will have a boatload of temporary contributors who comment. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 07:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I call it deletable. Wikipedia has an old practice of against including articles that serve only only as repost from other organizations (usually copyrighted) subjective ratings. The only way this will get along is fine if the article is primarily about the special television itself , including examples of comments that are properly related about ranking by other important figures. But the article did not do that - it's just just the list of Canadian Olympic moments. Bearcat (talk) 01:51, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, not a good article. Even if one manages to claim that it is important enough to be included, the name of the article is clearly inappropriate because it indicates this is a definitive list rather than the result of some unscientific polls. TastyCakes (talk) 20:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I have listed it for AFD. Bearcat (talk) 20:33, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Olympics 2010: Whistler-Creekside

Looks like we missed the Olympic location article... Whistler-Creekside/Whistler Creekside does not exist. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 12:31, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Also Blackcomb Village and Creekside Village. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I see that Whistler Village redirects to Whistler, British Columbia... so it does not have an article either. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 06:11, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

I do not think so. The 2010 Winter Olympic venues do not have red links, nor are templates for 2010 Winter Olympics venues . I suspect that Creekside Village and Blackcomb Village are part of Whistler Blackcomb, and if so they can be made to redirect. No need to have separate articles for everything - redirect is a useful tool. T (alk) 13:03, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Whistler-Creekside is constantly mentioned by NBC broadcasters, so whether there is a redlink or not, it is a location connected to the Olympics. Canadian broadcasters mention Whistler-Creekside and Creekside. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

WP: BEBOLD. So make a diversion for that/them. Do not leave a job for someone else. T (alk) 15:48, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The IP editor can not create articles. It's been like that for about two years. If I could, I would have to leave it to someone else. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 06:08, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

" I Believe "/" J'Imagine "

Is the song/instrumental/etc worthy of the article? This is particularly prominent on the CTV/V coverage of the Olympics, and there is the number 1 song downloaded.

• http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centre/newsid=37009.html?cid=rssctv
• http://qc-en.ctvolympics.ca/about-us/media/releases/newsid=27142.html

70.29.210.242 (talk) 11:09, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Appropriate answer: Does this meet WP criteria: NSONG?

My opinion: I think it's done because it has been recorded by two famous singers and download statistics # 1. PK T (alk) 13:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

You need song coverage from independent sources. I do not think CTV is independent of the song. ? alaney2k ? ( talk )

looking for help

Singer-songwriter Gordon Lightfoot dies... I am looking for some editors that are assembled and make Gordon Lightfoot look better..no ask for help to GA level. But it's obviously time to fix this article to at least level B.. let me know what you think..Buzzzsherman (talk) 19:49, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

death seems a hoax. ? alaney2k ? ( talk ) 20:14, 18 F

Source of the article : Wikipedia